In Conversation with Speaker, Author & Top 50 Influential Neurodivergent Woman 2022, Marcia Brissett-Bailey: How to Ensure Neurodiverse Children Do Not Miss Out on the Same Opportunities Afforded to Neurotypical Children: Podcast Transcript

Ludo Millar
Hello, and welcome to the Qualified Tutor Podcast, the podcast that brings you the latest in the world of tutoring EdTech and education and hopefully inspires in us a big change that each and every one of us is capable of.

Qualified Tutor is an industry-leading tutor training organisation and an online tutoring community for 1000s of tutors around the world. This podcast is the voice of this community, where we aim to hear from tutors, teachers, entrepreneurs, coaches, business experts, students, tutor printers, and more from the world of tutoring about what inspires them every day, how they can help tutors like you and what they’ve learned about tutoring along the way.

The question is, what will you learn today?


Ludo Millar 1:56
Welcome to this episode of the Qualified Tutor Podcast. My name is Ludo Millar, the host of this podcast. Welcome back to regular listeners. Welcome to any of you for whom this is your first time listening to the Qualified Tutor Podcast. And of course, a huge, huge welcome to today’s guest, Marcia Brissett-Bailey. Marcia, thank you so much for coming on. How are you? How are you doing today?

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 3:14
I’m good, I’m good. And for those who don’t know, this is Neurodiversity Celebration Week. So it’s amazing to be here as part of the podcast during this week. So thank you so much for having me.

Ludo Millar 3:27
That’s wonderful serendipity isn’t it there, Marcia. And I hope that we can get into that area, that topic a little bit more over the next kind of 25 minutes or so before we just dive right in. Listeners, as I said, I’m the regular host of this podcast, you don’t need to hear my voice too much more. I want to give them a little background because Marcia, you’ve done a great many things over your life, your career, you are currently doing some incredible things and I’m sure you will do an equal number of amazing things [in the future]. So let me just give a little background to you.

You are a voice for change across many sections of society, race, gender, disability, social mobility to name just four of those. And Marcia is Co-founder of the British Dyslexia Association Cultural Perspective Committee. An Advisory Board Member of the Centre for Neurodiversity Work and Neurodiversity in Business. A regular international speaker for Business Forums International and D&I Leaders on the impact of SEND in society, dyslexia and business, eradicating harmful stereotypes across the sections I mentioned just now. And excitingly, Marcia, an author on amongst many things, dyslexia and neurodiversity in the workplace.

Now, I’m not a big one for titles, Marcia, despite that being one of the most impressive roll calls we’ve had on the podcast. I prefer to hear the story and the insights behind how someone has got there and reached those titles, as it were, and we are lucky today that you have such a powerful and important story to tell. And finally, I’m not ashamed to say that I contacted Marcia several times sometimes, without reply, I know that you’re very, very busy, to invite Marcia onto the podcast. [LAUGHS] So I’m very glad that you’re on the show now with me, and that our listeners are able to hear your story. So with that in mind, let’s dive right in.

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 5:36
Wow, you made me sound so good, like, is this my life? That’s just like, can you give me that what you’ve just written so I can use it? Because it sounds really good. Well, where do I begin? Where do I start, I think my journey to where I am today is really started from a place, I’m going to say it and keep it real, from trauma. It really is. So it started at primary school, I would say I was in year five, year four, everything was fun. Everything was great primary school because we had infants when I was going into school. So the infants was all about play, imagination. And it definitely was stressed to be anything creative. But that’s when I went to year four or five, it was more about rote learning and standardised testing to test where you are and where your abilities are. Well, that didn’t feel good at all. And that made me feel quite closed and felt like I didn’t belong. Because as much as I love school and scores great, right up to that stage, it started to feel not so great. And I didn’t feel that school loved me, even though I loved school.

So school was, yeah, I was finding this is the place we’re told we have to go by law from the age of five up to go to school, unless you’re homeschooled or whatever else parents, to, you know, educate their children, whatever the options are. But for me, it didn’t feel quite right. And it was like becoming a mismatch, I started to feel like a bit of an alien. So I would spend lots of times in the classroom just feeling very invisible. But I was visible to the teachers, because when they asked me to read, I just wanted the crowd to swallow me. And I just didn’t want to do that. ‘Why don’t you ask somebody who can read and not ask me, so I can learn from them, rather than putting me through it. You can see I’m struggling. But you’re still putting me through something where my heart starting to beat fast, my hands are getting sweaty, and scared and anxious’.

That’s where the trauma started. I didn’t know what that was. But that’s what started to happen so much. So I decided I started to be selectively mute. I thought, if I didn’t speak, this is my clever idea, if I didn’t speak, I would be invisible. And then they wouldn’t ask me to read, the teachers wouldn’t ask me to read. But that’s not what happened. It continued to the point that my mum went to- those days, you could go to the headmaster go through the school, there was no reception as it were to sort of stop you and say, ‘Have you got a meeting?’ – you can go straight to the headmaster’s door, which my mum did and knocked on the door. And it was just almost like a bit the drums were coming, my mum was there, oh my gosh, when your mum or your parents come in, or your carer is coming to school, it’s quite serious. Like, it wasn’t like, ‘Hello, let’s have a cup of tea’. And she said, ‘My daughter’s not reading, you know, compared to her peers and her cousins. She’s not doing this’. And they ended up getting psychotherapy for me because they actually thought, which I’m going to just say and put in here, even though I can sort of bring it in later in our conversation, they thought that something was happening at home, rather than something that was happening in school, the traumas were happening at school. So it’s really important that I mentioned that because one of the other things there’s so many interlace, because when we talk about intersectionality, so not only was I going to, you know, my education, the environment was such within Hackney at the time, which was probably because it was perceived as a kind of deprived borough at that time. So I had that going on, didn’t really understand that, because I was just, you know, getting on and thinking of, you know, school and my friends.

But there’s also that whole thing my grandmother, who I grew up with, would be telling me you’ve got to work twice as hard as a young black girl to be able to achieve anything. And then you’ve got was those one of the failings or the things will happen at school that I was just missed, because I was kind of just going to be a statistic of a young black girl going through the system. And I feel that still closely dearly today. And it’s not something that I know, I know, something was happening I can’t prove entirely, but I was definitely missed in education. There was definitely a mismatch of seeing this young, really lovely young girl who was well behaved, which is what it said in my report, but she wasn’t quite grasping or capturing the learning. So already there should have been signs or signals but the signals weren’t there. So for me school was an experience. Thank goodness I was good at something like sport, because it showed me I could achieve something, it showed me I was good at something. And I also realised I was good at words and imagination. So all that time that I wasn’t engaging sometimes when it was really, really difficult, I was creating stories and having storytelling.

And I just think sometimes we look so much about what young people can’t do, or children can’t do instead of looking at what they can do, why can’t we look at the streams? So into assessments, and not looking at the imagination, the curiosity which I had, why is the sky blue? What’s you know- I was questioning, I was doing that philosophy question, but I wasn’t having those kind of conversations. Nor was I having those with my peers. I didn’t really have great friendships. But it was because I was just feeling misunderstood. So that’s given you a kind of constant little bit of an insight of how primary school was, and how I just felt that I didn’t belong. And we talk about now with EDI, that kind of inclusion, diversity, equity. And that sense of belonging already, I was picking that up from primary school, I didn’t know those words. But I knew that I didn’t feel like I quite belonged and there was an intersectionality around my culture, people may be misunderstanding about me and my identity. I’ll let you speak because I can speak for England. Sorry.

Ludo Millar 11:21
Not at all. So, how did those early experiences shape how you came to work in the areas you came to work in later on in life? You talked a little bit about that already about what you were feeling at that time even as a child, but what kind of effects do you think that that had?

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 11:42
I would say that the biggest one was when I was going to secondary school. So we will call that transition to year 11. My teacher, my former teacher, told my parents, and remember, I was trying to do this invisible thing. So I then wanted to be visible when my teacher was telling my parents that I was never going to academically achieve. That was when it started. That’s when it started that I decided to say, too, so I decided that wasn’t me. How dare she say that I wasn’t academically going to achieve, whatever that means. And we’re so focused on this academic, what does that mean? What does it mean to be an A student? What does that actually mean? And what about all the other things that you can bring to the table? So I think that was when you, you know, you had this kind of switch you like, Did she just say that you could go one way or the other? The thing is, this is the thing. So the words we say as educators, we have to be mindful, you know, I’ve worked with young people for a long time. And we’ve all been a young person, I’d like to think, at one point, you can be aware of what adults are saying. Adults can say sometimes things and they have to be mindful what they’re saying. Because, you know, I work with young people, they say, I can tell that I’m being excluded here, or I’m going over today, because I’m a special person. And these languages and the way we really need to be using a bit more initiative and looking about more entrepreneur and innovation, rather than always fixed on the assessment, and where that young person should be, according to whoever. I think we need to have a different type of system. But that’s another story.

So going back to your question, I think, yeah, by the time I was 10-11, that’s when I really started to think I’m not going to be this label that was given to me. But moving quickly forward. I think secondary school was a bit of a phase, a phase, it is not a phase, it’s just like I went through it was like an out-of-body experience, because it was so bad in the sense that I enjoyed my subjects, but I didn’t get the right support. And so I wasn’t writing essays or structuring things. I think the school quite knew there was something and I do remember having some lady supporting me but for example, I was in a Maths class and I would sit on a table by myself and my teacher would give me- I’m really good with like detecting shapes and puzzles and stuff like that. I’m really good, that motivates me. I’m really stimulated by things when I’m actually really good at them. So my teacher literally for the whole of my Maths lessons as far as I can remember, sometimes we as young people you may have, there may be things happening but you don’t really remember, you only remember things that you can remember. But at least I do remember to sit on a table by myself to in shape. And I had a book which I took I was so proud of it. It was like wooden cubes and you can fix it almost like a Rubik’s Cube but it was in wood. There were different shapes you had to show in 3D how I could create the shapes but that was my last Maths lesson for two years. It’s amazing and that was great, but what was I learning to pass the subject? So do you see what I mean? So there was a lot of things I came out with: the one GCSE, an A and a B so if you’re saying A to B, I got one GCSE I passed my GCSE is but A and B, I got one and it was a B in drama. And if I was able to, or I was taught to structure an essay and formulate it in the way that I know how to formulate an essay from the, you know, the introduction and the supporting sentences and all of those kinds of lovely things that you need to do to construct an essay. I would have definitely got an A, an A*, if there was one, then. But do you see the system has really failed me?

Ludo Millar 15:20
Yeah. So how do we ensure that talented children, children with those kind of skills that aren’t seen because of the system, we forced them into, how can we ensure that they don’t miss out on the opportunities afforded to other children?

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 15:40
I think we’re hearing things from [Matt] Hancock, on government initiatives about we’re gonna do screenings for dyslexia, you know, from the beginning, these things are great, but we need to look at the structures of our school and how we support our teachers, and the kind of training they have in the beginning. There’s all of those kinds of things, and I can’t solve, I only know from my experience, my lived experience is my experience, I can’t speak for everybody, some people go to private school, they might have different kind of ways of getting access to the right support. But there’s definitely something about funding and support. But if we can keep talking about it, keep pushing it, keep making it aware that some of the things that I’m trying to do to make change and also to empower people, empower parents and young people to find their voice to talk and advocate for themselves to make change, as well as challenge the system. Because there is something about the Equality Act, there is something about, you know, not discriminating somebody and making reasonable adjustments. And that’s the way that I’m going in to help others to be educated about and be informed about, not I don’t wanna say their rights, but the adjustments because it’s not about us being not able to, it’s about the the environment, right?

So it’s how do we make those environments accessible, to support all different types of learners? We’re not all the same. We’re not one glove fits all kind of thing. It’s never been like that. But we’ve obviously had systematic systems that have made to be like barriers now that we now need to look at differently if we’re going to have true inclusivity. Do you see what I mean? We’ve not needed to be a bit more open, that the way we’re learning. It can’t be just one way it had we talked about multi sensory learning, we talked about all these things, but how are they really based in the classroom? How are some- those young people are not quite know, you know, you’re testing me on my memory. But that’s one of my weakest things. But if you tell if you gave me an assignment, and I had to talk it, as you can hear me today, I’m going to nail that assignment. Because talking is one of my strengths, it’s become my strength, because my weakness is writing an essay. I mean, the way that said is there’s something not quite right, because you have to construct an essay in a way that doesn’t work for me, and especially as testing my memory, it doesn’t work. So if we could do that, you can do that one lovely way of writing. And I can do my lovely way of talking my assignment, why not? Why not? And that’s the problem. Why not? So I’m just sort of touching on that as an equal playing field in a way, we could have options, right, but you’re doing it whereby the BTECs have been cut down. There’s no creative side, there’s so many things that’s really cutting down those who learn in that way and are good at those types of things. I’ll stop there, because, you know, when I get onto a row, I don’t know when to stop, the full stop does not come.

Ludo Millar 18:55
So I mean, you’re saying greater flexibility in the system. And then I think part of that is, obviously greater funding in those resources and those staff to support that you were talking about how in your school days, the support wasn’t there, and that was probably through a range of lack of staff, lack of resources. And I think crucially, this lack of understanding of how children were struggling. And I want to touch on one part of what you do that is right at the heart of who we are here at Qualified Tutor, which is community and that kind of idea of there being a community around each child, and then that support being there. What does the word ‘community’ mean to you and your work?

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 19:49
I think there’s so many aspects to it. So if I think about the neurodiversity, the dyslexia space, that’s one thing, but I always go back to that representation because people are having different experience for different reasons, whether it’s to do with your class, whether it’s to do with your environment, education, and whether it’s to do with, you know, not having been included because of things like your race, I’m going to have to be real about that. I think there is something there. It’s not obviously a conversation for today. But there’s something around those intersectionalities, which disadvantaged people and marginalised communities. So when we’re talking about communities there, some communities are not represented, or we don’t hear their voices. And we don’t hear their stories, but I just got tired of doing that, I got tired of the masking or not feeling that I’m good enough, because I’ve not got an academic PhD. But my lived experience is valid. So I’ve created my community across, you know, using networks, LinkedIn and various things to talk about it. It’s not about trying to set up a difference, but there are genuine stories that are not being told. There are exclusions and people don’t think about it. I think I remember when the whole thing of George Floyd happens. And you know, that was really, really, really tragic. But I remember people trying to contact me, ‘Marcia, what can we do?’.

We need to ask questions, we need to look at what our systems about. And that’s how we can start. But people see things happening. But don’t say, we’ve got to stop seeing things happen and not saying so. There are a lots of things that are happening. But I’m all about community, I’m all about equity, helping to empower others to find their voice, where they don’t feel they have a voice. So as I said, my grandmother always told me, I have to work twice as hard. So you’ve got to remember, or I’m just sharing with you, I don’t say you’ve got to remember, but to share with you that telling a child who’s five or six, seven or eight, you’ve got to work hard. What is that setting that child up to think about themselves and their, their identity and who they are? So when I talk about dyslexia, I talk about representation, it’s going to be different for different community groups, we do share something in common. It may be the neurodiversity or the dyslexia, or being a tutor and supporting one person. But everyone is going to need a different type of learning to get there. And it’s really important that you have an understanding where that person may be coming from as much as you can, and be inquisitive, ask questions, we have to sometimes do the INS not have to I think always do the inside work before you do the outside good work is all good having all these ticks to say I’m a specialist, this man Spanish, but you need to do some inside work to know your community as well. Does that make sense?

So I’m all about community, the community is the heart of everything. You know, I’m an East London girl. And it’s all about community. I’m that time where you left your door open. You did ask people I don’t know why it was. So probably ask people for some sugar or tea. I don’t know why we always ran out of tea and sugar. But people always ask the potential when your door’s open. So for me community is very important to me, because I grew up in, in a council estate, it was all about community. So it’s about knowing your community and having shared commonalities and talking, don’t be afraid. If something’s uncomfortable, that means it needs to be discussed or talked about. That’s when you should try and go into find it. How can I do something different? Or how is it that I may be saying what might be not wrong? Don’t shy away? Try if you build up the courage to go for it. Don’t get me wrong. I’m, you know, I’ve been shy away. But I’ve been shy because I’ve always felt different. So it’s a difference. You know, as a young black girl, I’m thinking, ‘Oh no, what do I have to say?’ Because I’ve been learned that I need to just keep quiet. But where’s that come from?

So, community’s so important to me, I hope I’ve covered community because the neurodiversity comes out and I go off and then I’m trying to bring it back so you can get a picture of what I mean.

Ludo Millar 23:49
Wonderful representation of how that ties into what you do. I think that word, you know, means something different to everyone really, but finding community is a common idea, you know, whatever that means to you. And you’re touching on something there that we can’t skip over I don’t think in this conversation and even though I said before this conversation I wouldn’t find bring everything back to tutoring, I can’t help myself. How can tutors and educators be involved in that conversation that you were mentioning earlier about making sure that we give students a voice? In your past, you’ve been a careers advisor, you’re still very much a mentor to adults and children. How can tutors and educators be part of that conversation?

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 24:41
I think one of the key things that is part of my career is training and also I did some counselling training as well. It’s about being an effective listener, being personal, self-centred and holistic. And listening and hearing. Even hearing the what when it’s not said. Silence is golden, but it also communicates something when someone’s not talking, obviously not always, you go there because sometimes people don’t want to share, but it tells you something is happening for that person. So effectively listening for me is really important, picking up those little, little and said kind of things that indirectly they’re saying something, but they don’t know how to say. Confidence and self esteem is something that we don’t always talk about in neurodiversity, dyslexic, and even children who are not any of those things. Sometimes we’ve been told or kind of oppressed, I’m going to say that word oppressed sometimes in the way we’re learning that we don’t feel that we’re ever good enough. I always say now that there’s no such thing as perfect, but they never teach you that at school.

There isn’t any perfect person. But because we’ve always been told this perfect person is a great student, you’re already breaking down someone’s viewpoint about who they are and who they could be. And I’m all about potential, what is your potential? But if you’re telling them they’re not good enough, how are we going to be able to be that aspirational person, it took me I had to do a lot of work to get away from that imposter syndrome, you know, self sabotage, because that early a piece of work of my nurturing and education told me I wasn’t good enough. So going back to your question, we’ve seen all of that is about effectively listening. And really hearing your young people and finding out what their interests are, find out what they like, find out what some of the challenges are, ask them. You know, one of the things I always find when I was a careers advisor, people said, how do you work with young people, you know, they’re like the hardest. They’re not, it’s mutual respect. I’m learning all the time. For me, you never stop learning, learning is continuous. Every person is an individual, you’ve got a story to tell you’ve got a background, you’ve got a history. I’m interested, I’m always interested, because that’s how I’m learning about people. I love people.

So I always want to learn, or you come from this community group, you come from that group. That’s really interesting to me, because that helps me to be a whole person, because I want to know about other people. Does that make sense? So all those integral things, but I definitely think the key thing for me has been about effectively listening and not listening to oh my gosh, shopping to do, you’re missing a trick when you do that, when you’re not really listened to that person, because you’re on a timer. If you can make time for it, some of that stuff, even though you have to do the tutoring, sometimes 15 minutes at that time, just to find out how that person they may not have anybody doing that to them. And I know that from my own experience, no one asked me how I was. Does that make sense?

Ludo Millar 27:49
No, I mean, I’m thinking, now that you mentioned it, I’m a full time tutor, as well as what I do for Qualified Tutor. And so often I start a lesson with 100 things in my head that have been running, you know, boiling up in my head right up to the start of that tutoring session, you know, it starts at, let’s say, 4:30pm, all the way up to that session all day, I’ve been thinking about things, doing things. And when I arrive at that session at 4:30, I start working with the child, my head is just full of other things. And it is so hard to arrive at the right place in the present moment and the start of a familiar tutoring session, but it could be any session with a child. And you’re so right, you have to be present. You have to live in that moment, not just for yourself, but mainly for the child and for their development. It’s just it’s too high a stake to be elsewhere, you know, mentally.

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 28:43
100%. And we know we have to try better or do better as adults. Because what I’m saying is even when I was at school, and I was maybe getting that support, we can pick up what the adult’s vibration. If you want to say energy, I can pick up energy very well. And I did as a child, you can sense when someone doesn’t want to really be there, or they’ve got something else even if not say words, you don’t have to always say words, non-verbal communication is just as powerful. So for me, it’s those little things. Yeah, it’s definitely you’ve said it correctly. For me, that’s what it’s all about. You’ve got to whatever you’ve come in the door with, you’ve got to drop that, go and wash your hands – water’s really good, running water to get you feeling to try to get yourself to be more congruent and be present. Absolutely.

Ludo Millar 29:30
So, you say how each one of your days is so busy. How do you breathe? How do you clear your head?

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 29:40
I tell you, I do meditation. That’s one of my ultimate things I meditate daily. For me in the mornings because my day starts early. I’m a bit of a early bird so I’m either in the 3 o’clock or 5 o’clock club, either one of those and that’s not to go to work because I work from home but just because that’s how my day starts is how I get all the things I don’t do what’s not in my day job to get done. And it’s just how I start my day. It’s how I can be organised and be present and focus about what’s going on, what I need to do for that day. Write a plan, and I’m not rushing, because I’ve planned that time because I’ve woken up, I’m awake. And that’s the same. They say there’s time when it’s really good to concentrate and work. But people don’t make time for those things because they want to sleep. But it’s about balance, isn’t it? I’m not perfect. And as we said before, no one’s perfect. But that’s one of the things that I do do, which I think works for me, it works for the way I work. I’m not a last-minute person, but I tend to work with adrenaline, and just who I saw do that then.

Yeah, so I have to give myself time because I have to pace myself. So my mornings are really sacred. nobody disturbs my mornings because I’m doing stuff and it is sometimes on the computer, it is meditated. It is doing some stretching, it is going for a morning walk in the park. It’s all of those things. And I do a little bit of my photography when I’m doing it. Because I get to see sunsets, I get to see birds, and all sorts of things. I’m making that conscious decision to make time. But in the middle of the day in the evenings, it’s not so great. I’m here now and I’m going this is great. But if I’m not doing anything, then it sort of goes out easy could be under the duvet and a blanket. And yeah. it’s that balance, isn’t it?

Ludo Millar 31:29
Also, you have brought such energy to this and a great deal of experience as well, you know, for those of you who may not have worked out, Marcia has been involved in education for a very, very long time. She’s even admitted to me beforehand that she has been involved in education for many more than 30 years. But she says 30 because she doesn’t want people to start guessing. [LAUGHS]

I just want to end with one final question, Marcia, which is, what does 2022 hold for you?

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 32:11
So 2022 holds for me. To continue this journey of empowering I guess, I’m not going to stop, there are so many things that have happened. I don’t know if you know recently about the GCSE Maths and English. If you don’t have those, you cannot go to you’re not going to get a student loan, all of these things are going on for those marginalised groups, and I didn’t pass my GCSE first time round. Second time round, I even got a Grade B in English, in English literature because I had a passion and was good at it. And what I’m saying sometimes some learners take a little bit longer. So if you’re going to penalise them, and you’re going to penalise them on courses, that you know that something so my words not going to stop, because those things need me, my voice is there, and I feel like I can use this space to do it.

And I’m also writing a book, I’m in the middle of finishing the book, actually. And so I hope my book is out by the end of the year. And that’s about dyslexia, and being black. And why I say being black, I’ve just been the representation is missing, it’s more about elite people within the industry who are neurodivergent, I just feel we need to change that narrative a little bit. And we need to see people who feel that they can identify and people who look like them. I never had role models. I never knew anybody who was dyslexic, who was black, for a very long time. And those things, role models, are very important or seeing people who look like you. So representation, as you know, very early, you talked about those very important to me, because we have a diverse community, but let it be diverse. It can’t be just one way because then people don’t feel- they feel that they’re included or belong. So that’s something I want to sort of continue to focus on.

That’s, I’ll say that’s it. But I’m sure there’s lots of things around speaking, I’d love to go into education a little bit more, and I’m doing a bit more talks around in education, HEs, because that’s another area I’d love people to find their voice. Another time have me back and I will talk about higher education, my experience and not feeling again, you know, education and higher education is great. It’s been great. But it’s also been some places where I’ve not felt too great and the support mechanisms around that. But let’s leave that for another time. So getting more into education talking. And yeah, getting a little bit more militant with it in terms of just saying it as it is just, I’m not gonna mask anymore. I’ve done too much masking my life. And it’s not fair. And it’s not fair for the next generation. I don’t want them to go through it either. We can’t do that again. So I’m doing my best, as much as I can in my loss, your capacity to make change and I’m so happy that you’ve invited me today. I really enjoyed today’s interview. If I didn’t feel so blessed. I could speak forever. But I know we’ve got to come to an end. So thank you, so much gratitude always on that, thank you.

Ludo Millar 35:06
We do unfortunately, Marcia and it was actually one of the more stressful parts of my week last week was trying to decide what to talk about, to boil everything that you do down into, into 30, you know, 35 minutes was very hard because you you’ve helped so many communities and you continue to push yourself to, you know, do as much as you can, and for so many different kinds of groups. And if you’d like to catch Marcia, as part of what she does as a speaker, then the Neurodiversity at Work 2022 online summit on the 24th May, is one of the big events in Marcia’s calendar coming up. You can find out more about that in the show notes and the links to Marcia’s books, upcoming books, website and previous podcast appearances can also be found in the show notes. And just to cap it off, Marcia is heading into UK Parliament tomorrow to chats all things education, policy, disability in the workplace and in education. So there is really a lot going on with Marcia and you really are changing so many lives.

So we are very, very grateful that you found the time to join us on the Qualified Tutor Podcast and we will be getting you back on. You’re one of the first guests to say, ‘You should get me back on’ and I really rate that confidence because you deserve as much exposure to the wider education sector as possible. So thank you so much.

Marcia Brissett-Bailey 36:47
Thank you so much as well. Frankly, it’s so kind you’ve said so many nice words about me, like is that me? Sometimes I’m like, ‘No, that’s not me’. But thank you so much. I definitely will come back. I definitely will. So, you’re gonna have to have me back. I’m putting it out there into the universe.

Ludo Millar 37:02
Yeah. Well, you listeners. That’s the benefit that you get from listening today is knowing that there’ll be another appearance for Marcia very soon. So I cannot wait to speak to you all next time where we’ll be getting Susannah Hardyman, the CEO of Action Tutoring onto the podcast. And we’ll be speaking to her a bit about Action Tutoring’s 10-year anniversary, and all they’re doing to celebrate that. So that’s what we’ve got to look forward to next week, but drag the cursor back, listen back to other parts of this conversation. There was so much in there and do have a look at further resources involving Marcia and her work in the show notes. But for today, that’s all for us. Big love to our audience. A huge, huge thank you to you, Marcia, and we’ll see you all next time.


Ludo Millar

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