Inspiring Teachers and Students to Be Their Best Selves: An Interview with the President-Elect of the Chartered College of Teaching, with Steven Berryman: Podcast Transcript

Ludo Millar
Hello, and welcome to the Qualified Tutor Podcast, the podcast that brings you the latest in the world of tutoring EdTech and education and hopefully inspires in us a big change that each and every one of us is capable of.

Qualified Tutor is an industry-leading tutor training organisation and an online tutoring community for 1000s of tutors around the world. This podcast is the voice of this community, where we aim to hear from tutors, teachers, entrepreneurs, coaches, business experts, students, tutor printers, and more from the world of tutoring about what inspires them every day, how they can help tutors like you and what they’ve learned about tutoring along the way.

The question is, what will you learn today?

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Ludo Millar 2:00
Hello, and welcome listeners to the 116th episode of the Qualified Tutor Podcast. My name is Ludo Millar, the host of this podcast. Welcome back to regular listeners. Welcome to any of you for whom this is the first time listening to this podcast. And of course, a huge welcome back to today’s guest, Steven Berryman. Steven, welcome back to the podcast.

Steven Berryman 3:13
Thank you for the second invitation.

Ludo Millar 3:16
Back in March 2021, some of you listeners out there will, I hope will have been listening to this podcast ever since then. And you may remember Steven, but back in March 2021, so just over a year ago, we welcomed Steven onto the podcast to discuss how the music curriculum could benefit the Covid recovery, we discussed Steven’s changing approach to music education since the lockdown had first hit, the role that instrument learning could play in improving the creativity of this country’s children. And we finished that conversation by talking about how tutors and classroom music teachers could work effectively in partnership. Now today, Steven joins us this podcast as the newly announced president of the Chartered College of Teaching, taking up this new role this coming November 2022, which follows on from, we were just talking about before this conversation, his four or so years in the role of Founding Fellow at the College.

So the Chartered College for those of you who don’t know the organisation is a professional membership body and provider of CPD for teachers and educators, educators up and down the country and indeed abroad. It’s a huge organisation for teachers and they’ve done amazing work over the pandemic and in fact since its inception in 2017, so a great deal to be excited about over the course of the next few months not least because graduates of Qualified Tutor training courses can become members of the Chartered College for a discounted fee which has proved to be a very fruitful route for many tutors in our community. So, with all that in mind, welcome back to the podcast Steven, I believe the first thing to say is that a huge congratulations are in order. 

Steven Berryman 5:10
Thanks very much.

Ludo Millar 5:13
When was it first announced, just so our listeners can contextualise?

Steven Berryman 5:17
Within the last month or so. It was a fairly rigorous process, but it was worth the effort and the time. So it was announced by the College last month and I had a chance to talk to Schools Week about it and share, I suppose, some of my excitement about it and what that might mean. It’s the first time that college has had to recruit a President-Elect. And being the first ever President-Elect, I’ll only be in post for about eight months before becoming President. But the next President-Elect, so to speak, we will start about recruitment a year in advance of them taking over the President role. So I’ll only be President without a President-Elect for a year, then the process begins again. So it’s only a two-year stint, it feels like it’s a big thing. But at the same time, I have to put it in perspective that it is only two years. So I have to make a count.

Ludo Millar 6:05
Well, I’m sure you have some big plans, even to fit into those two years. We’ll be getting onto some of those projections in just a couple of minutes. But as regular listeners will know, we like to start this podcast with a little segment about the school days of our guest. Now, I gather that obtaining some physical school reports proved a little bit tricky, but I was wondering if you would be able to tell us about some of those that school teacher feedback that you received?

Steven Berryman 6:39
Well, gosh, I think, I mean, when you look back in your school days, it’s quite hard to remember them. Because I suppose when you become a teacher, particularly when you’ve taught in quite a few schools, your immediate memory of schools or schools you work in more than the schools you went to. But I think probably from quite a young age comments about me being quite bossy, I think, from teachers, and I think I had a habit, one thing I’d be told off a lot for was finishing work, whilst the teacher was giving me instructions of the work itself. So by the time I was there, I had a personal race with myself. So if they were to say you’re going to do these exercises, before they finished giving me instructions, I would have finished the work. So I’d get told off, because I finished your work too quickly. And I think I did many reckless things. And I remember trying to put something up on display without asking the teacher’s permission, I was stood in a chair, and I fell off. And then really hurt myself. But there’s that sense of I think I just did what I wanted to do. I didn’t quite- I mean, I was very well behaved, but I was quite, you know, determined to do what I wanted to do.

But the teachers I had were brilliant, you know, various, hugely supportive and hugely generous with their time, particularly art teachers. The art department became a place where you’d go every break time, you’d go every lunchtime because you wanted to keep making work. And I remember one art teacher would set me challenges. You know, she said this week, just do a painting using the colour blue. Next week, you can use green and things like that. So I think I’ve got really fond memories, and some of my teachers I’m still in touch with and have worked with now, you know, quite a long time later. So I’ve only really got positive anecdotes, but I think yeah, I was often criticised for being bossy, or doing things too quickly, when I should have, you know, listened more carefully and then acted.

Ludo Millar 8:19
Do you think it would be fair, Steven, to say that, as a teacher, you were bossy as well?

Steven Berryman 8:24
Probably. I mean, I think it’s a really tricky one, isn’t it? Because I suppose teachers are used to controlling rooms and it can be quite hard when in other aspects of your life to relinquish that control. But you do learn, don’t you? I think you get better at it. And I think as you graduate, so to speak, in your teaching career towards leading not only your subject, but other groups to people that you recognise it’s very much a team sport. And so telling people what to do isn’t something you really do anymore. I think teaching is more about making space for other people to get to be their best selves and get the work done that needs to be done.

Ludo Millar 9:01
Yeah, exactly. There’s not sort of a single route to success is there. And I’ve always enjoyed this segment, not only because it gives some context to the guests that we invite on, but also because it feeds very nicely into this idea around something that the kind of American thinker Simon Sinek talks about, which is this why: how organisations and individuals come to understand why they do what they do. Do you think your school experiences had an impact into why you do what you do today, Steven?

Steven Berryman 9:40
Oh, massively. And I think about this a lot. I think some of your formative experiences really dictate your why. And I look back to when I first started teaching in a boarding school in Dorset and not quite knowing what I was doing and not really having a huge amount of instruction or professional development in what I was doing, I was just left to do it and to think I hadn’t been observed in my first four years of teaching at all. So there’s real vulnerability in that. And then you have to find your own why because, you know, why am I doing this? Why am I teaching? And I guess, someone said to me, when I kept moaning, I don’t know how to do this, I’ve never done this before, I need some help. But he did say, ‘You have been taught’. And it’s quite a profound statement when you think about it. But all of us have been through instruction, well we hope so. Obviously, there are parts of the world where education isn’t of the variety it should be. But for so many of us, we have been taught, and we have been taught for a very, very long time. And we continue to be taught if we get involved in various other ventures in our adult lives as well. But I suppose for me, it’s that you want people to get better. I think that’s why I do what I want to do. I want people to be their best selves. And I think in a classroom, you want them to be.

If I’m teaching music, I want them to be the best musician they can be. And I suppose it doesn’t mean the end goal is the same for everyone. It just means you want that journey to be the best experience it can be. It’s not about setting the destination, it’s more about the journey. And I think it’s the same with why I love working with teachers, I just believe people want to be their best selves. And they want to get better at what they do. And so if there’s any way I can support that either directly by providing training, or indirectly by working with other people that might be to provide training, or even more indirectly, by being at a board of an organisation that might support others to do so. I think that’s what drives me. How can I help people be better? And how can I help people connect to help other people be better? And I think that’s what drives me. That’s my why.

Ludo Millar 11:38
It’s about as powerful as it gets.

Steven Berryman 11:42
I mean, your why should be really small. They say that it’s like an elevator pitch, isn’t it? Why do we do what we do? It should be really short. And but I like Simon’s work. I think it’s really useful. His kind of aphorisms, he often tweets are quite- they’re good reminders to check in with yourself. Why am I doing this? Was that a sensible decision? What else could I have done? Why might you- so yeah, I agree. I think it’s good to think about your why.

Ludo Millar 12:07
Yeah. He recently appeared on the fairly successful popular podcast, the Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bartlett, if you haven’t heard that conversation, that is a very good explanation and indication of who Simon is, and what his vision is. So yeah, no, I’m glad that our listeners are able to hear that from you, Steven, because that’s a very important- it’s a very worthy goal. Now, just just turning a little bit to the Chartered College. Tell us a little bit more about how and why you came to be involved with the Chartered College in the first place.

Steven Berryman 12:46
I wanted to get better. [LAUGHS] And I think once I discovered, and I can’t quite remember how I discovered, it might have been because where I was working at the time North London Collegiate School, I think, the Bernice McCabe, the headteacher at the time, I think she might have been involved through the Prince’s Teaching Institute through various conversations around having a college for teaching. And it’s not a new concept. There have been colleges of teachers, for a while. I mean, it’s a concept that has existed for over 100 years, in fact, but the Chartered College of Teaching, yeah, I became a member very quickly, once I saw the opportunity existed. I can’t quite remember how, it’s all legend now. But I signed up. And I guess, again, it was that need to feel connected to the conversation. And I was asked by someone the other day, ‘But why do people become members of a Chartered College?’. And I’m saying it’s quite hard to convince someone, not to ‘convince’ them, but to explain to someone if you said you’ve got one sentence, what would you say? Why be a member? Because there’s quite a lot you can say about being a member of the Chartered College. But a teacher said it really well by saying, ‘Why would you not take the opportunity to be involved in the conversation about your profession?’. And I think that’s really powerful. It made me think that’s why we join professional bodies, because we want to have a voice within the conversation around the way we do what we do and why we do what we do.

So I think I jumped at the chance to join and Dame Alison’s been brilliant, I think right from the beginning. She’s been hugely supportive in giving opportunities not just to me, but for many people like me, who joined, and obviously subsequently became one of the fellows as well, that we get chance to contribute to events, we get the chance to speak with people that might make a difference in the classroom, not just for learners, but for teachers. And so over time, the Chartered College has just become this vehicle for me to contribute, again to help make people get better, but also help myself get better. As a teacher, I’ve learned a lot by doing the Chartered Teacher programme. I’ve learned a lot by attending events. I’ve learned a lot by contributing to Impact. I’ve learned a lot from being involved in any roundtables that fellows have had and all the conversations you have with other members and colleagues at the Chartered College. So it’s been hugely impactful CPD. It’s been the best CPDI’d say I’ve had in my career, I think, and particularly the Chartered Teacher Status programme, just gave such huge confidence to talk about teaching and competence to talk about what we do in the classroom through reflective assignments. And I think it’s built this community of practice. Other Chartered Teachers now that have gone onto really great things have launched networks, they’ve launched their own podcasts. They’ve contributed to books. It’s really energised the expert teacher, and I think it’s great to have that trajectory for someone who doesn’t want to become a manager. Because often in teaching, that’s all we can do is that you just keep climbing up the management pipeline. People want to stay in the classroom and be a great teacher. So Chartered Teacher Status gave us that, but yeah, hugely impactful to be involved in the College.

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Julia Silver
Okay, let’s go …

Ludo Millar
Welcome everyone to this, the 11am event on Monday 24th January at the Love Tutoring Festival.

[QT MUSIC]

Okay, here we go.

Jack Simmonds
So, the first prize that we are going to give away today is … number nine! I need an extra monitor. That’s what I need …

[QT MUSIC]

Ludo Millar
So welcome to the 2pm keynote at the Love Tutoring Festival Day 2, Tuesday 25th of January, 2pm UK time where many of us here are based. Our speaker today is Michael Bungay Stanier, who is a, as you can see here, Wall Street Journal bestselling author on coaching.

Michael Bungay Stanier
Maybe I hand it back to Ludo as a kind of ‘what needs to be said’ to wrap us up here.

Ludo Millar
Well, Michael, you’ve made my job very simple. There doesn’t really need to be much more said, that was world class.

Yes. For those of you wondering, those were just a few highlights from the incredible Love Tutoring Festival 2 that took place at the end of January of this year 2022. The big news from Qualified Tutor and the Love Tutoring Festival team is that … we’re BACK!

From Monday 27th June to Friday 1st July, the Love Tutoring Festival 3 will return. The focus of this festival is on alignment and new beginnings. The festival will have a slightly different feel to it but all of the main tenets will still be there. A host of amazing speakers, including world renowned leaders in education, such as Craig Barton, will be joining us for a festival of fanfare, of training and of connection. Those are the values which hold the Love Tutoring Festival together and those are the values that we want you to come and take part in over the week of the festival.

Head to qualifiedtutor.org/love-tutoring-festival to find out more and book your ticket today.

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Ludo Millar 18:10
You’ve mentioned a number of very positive benefits there. I can hardly believe that there are more to come. But you will be the President come November of this year. What plans then have you got to build on the success of the College so far?

Steven Berryman 18:38
Well, yes, it’s very exciting. But it is, as I said, before we started it’s very much a team sport, that even as President, essentially you’re chairing the council members for the College, and working with Dame Alison, as I mentioned, the positive advocate for the professional body and hopefully joining in that conversation and contributing to, you know, this podcast today and things like this, just helping to make sure that the purpose of the College to connect, support and celebrate teachers is well known, because this is a key priority really is making sure we normalise membership of the Chartered College. We want teachers to feel that, as they enter the profession, they join the College because that’s what you do, teachers join the Chartered College of Teaching and as I said not long ago, I think it’s because you not only do you get these benefits to enhance your professional capital, you have the journal, Impact, which is the interface between research and practice in the classroom. That mixture of academics as well as practising teachers contributing to that journal. You’ve got a huge volume of online content. You’ve also got that policy unit so to speak within the field of politics, looking at key issues such as the Education in Times of Crisis reports. And it just is that positive voice for the profession because we know it’s really challenging to get teachers to stay in the profession to be honest and retention is really challenging. So we want the Chartered College of Teaching to be that companion throughout your career, to be that vehicle for you to contribute to those bigger conversations, to have the opportunity to be developed, to its resources, to connect with your colleagues across the sector, but also to engage in high quality professional learning, such as Chartered Teacher Status, so you can feel recognised, as well as fellowship to actually recognise [how] to be a great teacher, and just hopefully keep being a member throughout your entire career.

So I guess a major plan really is normalising memberships. So as many people as possible who are in teaching recognise the value and will join, because the more of us who are members, the stronger we become as a professional body, because we can be more representative of the profession to make sure we can represent more faithfully the views of everyone who teaches not only in England, but all the four nations and across, you know, if they’re teaching in British schools abroad, and that’s great. We want as many of those people to feel welcome and at home at the Chartered College. It’s really important actually that everyone who’s involved in education, and obviously, the Chartered College is for anyone involved in education between 0 and 19 years of age your students. So tutors are very much welcome as members because they’re going to benefit from all the wisdom and insight collectively that the Chartered College has to offer. But also all these conversations and research-informed practice and all that practice and academic synthesis that goes on in the journal, Impact. I think all of this literature is gonna be hugely valuable for anyone who’s engaged in education, whether it be in a classroom, or in a one-to-one or small group tutor situation. So it’s brilliant that they have the chance to be members.

Ludo Millar 21:42
Impact is one of those, for those of you who don’t know, Impact is the quarterly publication of the Chartered College of Teaching, which brings together the latest research and evidence into pedagogical practices in education into this essentially kind of magazine that is released once a quarter. It’s one of those publications that I wished there was more time in the day to read it or, you know, it’s just, I don’t find time to read every article, but I wish I could.

Steven Berryman 22:18
It’s very calorific, isn’t it?

Ludo Millar 22:21
Yeah, it is. It’s sort of moreish almost, you know, it’s very hard not to keep reading, even when, you know, you’ve got a meeting coming up or dinner’s ready, you know, whatever it is. So, that I mean, is a reason alone to join the Chartered College is Impact, that publication that comes out, it’s a truly real tome of education practice.

I wanted to change the conversation slightly, you know, looking more towards the role of teachers, and in a second music teachers, obviously, the specialism that you find yourself in. What are the big challenges for teachers over, you know, the next year or so especially leading into the next academic year? What is it that the Chartered College is focusing on in terms of problems that they are looking to solve for teachers over the next year or so?

Steven Berryman 23:22
Gosh, I guess whoever you ask is going to give you quite a big list of problems, because there are many, I guess there are issues for the profession as teachers in terms of, I suppose retention. And obviously, there’s a huge, quite significant piece of work happening in terms of initial teacher training now. So there’s lots of early career framework. But I think, thinking about what’s going on in my own schools and thinking about the conversations I’ve had with other teachers and leaders, I guess, is just spending that time digesting the learning from the periods of lockdown. And I suppose, I’m certainly averse to saying Covid is over, because I think many of us in schools will know that Covid isn’t over and we continue to tackle that absences, that might be a consequence of, you know, positive tests and things like that. But I think there’s a lot of learning to do. And I think schools are such fast, agile places that I just hope everyone can take the time to reflect. Obviously, there’s a lot of loss not only in terms of those that might have lost their lives to Covid, that there was a loss of ways of working, where we were used to doing things in certain ways such as parents’ evenings, such as events where parents might come and watch, parents and carers, suddenly all of that stopped.

And whilst there can be that grief in some respect for the usual ways of working, I think we’ve discovered benefits of working in different ways such as online parents’ evenings. It’s really interesting how that would be unimaginable probably a few years ago, but suddenly people thought this is really quite good. Not only can you cut parents off after a fixed time [LAUGHS], the appointment just ends. I think at the same time, it has made it better for a lot of people, because not only, you know, it’s difficult for parents and carers to get to school sometimes if you’ve got quite a busy life or you’ve got work. So there have been some benefits. And I think some of the learning, particularly in terms of online tools, probably a couple of years ago, the idea of streaming a lesson or whatever word one might use, be on Teams or Google Meets, whatever platform you did, the idea that you would do that was just probably unimaginable. But to think now, it’s very normal to think, ‘Oh, we can just put the lesson online’. And I think everyone has been remarkably agile in discovering ways of making this subject work.

Obviously, some subjects do not work as well. And we might have chatted about this before. And I know certainly arts subjects, several ones in a recent Tes article were the most jeopardised really by periods of lockdown. But I think the challenge really is a positive one and a negative [one]. It’s really taking the time, I think, to reflect on what is the key learning from this period of lockdown, and the use of technology, what can we weave back into our business as usual life in schools, because fairly some of these things probably enhance wellbeing. And I think that is a big issue for teachers. We can’t underestimate that whilst teachers are remarkable people having that agility to respond and pivot to digital, still, it’s hugely fatiguing to deliver. And I think we’ve all recognised that, as we’ve all increased our volume of Zoom meetings, but to deliver teaching online is hugely fatiguing for everyone. There is an element of performance to it, but also you’re trying to engage people. And we know what it’s like being in an online meeting when you don’t want to be there.

But it’s different when you might have 30 people who don’t want to be there, and you’re trying to engage and you’re under pressure, I think as a teacher to demonstrate something’s happened and you’ve made a difference to a child through your teaching, it’s quite hard to do that when you’re not in control of the space. So I think, a huge amount of fatigue, but teachers have demonstrated a huge amount of resilience. So I think looking ahead, really people have to think very carefully about the wellbeing of staff as we we’ve been through a lot of change. So leaders need to think very deeply about how am I looking after my staff? How does next year look? Can I somehow enhance or improve or minimise workload now because of the learning of recent lockdowns, to the use of technology, what might be stripped back, remove some friction or sludge, whatever word you might use, to make everyone’s working life better, because people deserve a bit more time now and space to be their best self, and do the best jobs, particularly after the fatigue created through quite intense working through Covid.

Ludo Millar 27:30
And as I mentioned, before starting this podcast from when you last joined us, we spoke about the role of the music curriculum in that exact recovery that you’ve just mentioned there. Specifically about the music sector of education, then how do you see the music curriculum’s role has changed now, in the summer of 2022?

Steven Berryman 27:57
Well, I guess we’re now back to a bit more normal ways of working, it’s been a real joy to walk around and hear people singing in choirs and a real joy to see concerts again and see parents and carers at concerts again, because you can feel how much people have missed this contribution to school life. You can see the- I mean, just by the volume of audience I saw at one of our school concerts thinking, wow, this really tells you how much people have missed this. And when I was chatting to students during a student voice session not long ago, you asked students like, ‘Why music? Why do you watch or thinking about music in this school?’. Because, you know, obviously more than one school and interestingly one student said, ‘It’s just so different to everything else’. And she really looked forward to going into the lessons, it was a real highlight for her because, I think the deputy head said he was on the panel with me. She asked that exact question: ‘When you see music on your timetable, how do you feel? Do you look forward to it or do you feel a bit nervous?’. Some students said, ‘I really look forward to it because it’s so different to everything else. And always quite fun. It’s quite relaxing’. And as a teacher, you think, Wait, it shouldn’t feel relaxing or fun. This is a serious subject. [LAUGHS] But I think I’ve learned really as a consequent consequence of Covid really, that it’s no harm for the arts to be fun and relaxing. Whilst we all agree as as teachers, various discipline, there’s a seriousness and there’s a rigour to our subjects, there’s something we need to teach. But I think we recognise how important these subjects are to students beyond their school life. They become an outlet for their wellbeing to really think deeply about complex issues.

So I think it’s important for us as music curriculum designers and leaders of a subject to let there be fun and let there be relaxation if that’s what students need. And it’s brilliant in some respects that students see our subjects like that as a space to be themselves.

Ludo Millar 29:52
I think we spoke about this on the first podcast, you’re speaking to someone to whom that relates entirely. Yeah. I think it was a really- it felt like an escape, you know, being dragged out of my History or English class to go to a music lesson certainly felt like an escape, it felt like I’d almost cheated the system and one, you know, I was able to take this half an hour break out of, you know, something that all of my fellow students weren’t able to do. So, I think what that does for creativity, for children, school students is wonderful. And unfortunately, it’s something that many students who don’t get the chance to play a musical instrument never, they never see that, they never feel that release, which is strange, from the perspective of someone who has done that.

Steven Berryman 30:45
And I guess that’s why it’s hugely important. Organisations such as UK Music Masters, Music in Secondary Schools Trust who give equitable access to instrumental learning. So UK Music Masters work with five partner schools, primary schools in London, every child learns an instrument in that school. So throughout their entire school life, the learning [of an] instrument and engaged in many high quality music instruction with brilliant tutors. Music in Secondary Schools Trust every child in year 7, 8, 9 learns an orchestral instrument, every child within the normal music kind of classroom time. And there’s a chance through that programme to engage with other tutoring and other Saturday morning things.

But I think the more we can do to get that kind of equitable access, every child can experience working with a high quality tutor through music, or learning an instrument, the better because I think we all recognise when you’ve had, I mean, how many years’ music lessons, and I still have them. And it’s interesting how important that relationship becomes without a tutor. Because it’s the only time really in your week where you get that intense, dedicated instruction, which you don’t get in a normal music class. You get an hour of someone’s time, and the only thing they’re dealing with is you. So it’s a real intensity. But also, it’s a real pride as she’s succeeded in something and you feel like someone’s genuinely invested in your success. So I recommend everyone gets that chance. And also, it’s a great chance to experience what it’s like to get negative feedback, you will be told that’s not very good, it needs to be different, you need to be better, it needs to be like this, and you get pushed to improve. And I think it prepares you well for life. Because there will be times in your life when you get bad feedback, or you get bad comments. And if you’ve never had that in your life, it’s quite hard to deal with it. So music gives you that safe space to have a go, get it wrong and keep trying because you have one tutor believing that you can do this and you can be better.

Ludo Millar 32:41
I love that test, Steven, it’s the one time where you have to learn to get negative feedback [LAUGHS]. I love that Steven.

Steven Berryman 32:46
Because you have to deal with someone telling you that that sounds terrible. That sounds wrong. That doesn’t sound right. And it can be quite alarming when you have a new teacher. And it can be quite upsetting. But you realise they’re only saying this because they want me to be better. And then you recognise, actually, they’re being honest. And that’s because they care. It’s when someone doesn’t give you that type of feedback, you realise they don’t care. But actually I’ve only had good music teachers, thank goodness. But I think if everyone could have this experience if they can, even if you hate it, go and have these events, and even as an adult, go and have a singing lesson and just see how it feels to have that one teacher focused on you and your success for 30 minutes, an hour. It will transform your week, I guarantee it.

Ludo Millar 33:30
I love that. I think that might be the snippet that I was talking about, the upload to YouTube. [LAUGHS]

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Ludo Millar 33:40
Now, a quick word from last week’s guest, Sheena Ager.

Sheena Ager 33:46
Hi Sheena Ager here. What did I learn from being on the Qualified Tutor Podcast? Well, I learned that I really enjoyed being on podcasts and that I would really be very happy to do some more in the future. And what I enjoyed most about being a guest on this podcast was I think, talking to Ludo, he made things so easy, put me at ease. He’s a natural listener, he was curious and nothing felt forced. It felt really, really nice and easy. And what would I say to a future guest? Be prepared. I was prepared. I sort of thought about what I was going to say. And I thought very much about the audience. So who was I speaking to? And not everything went as planned, but that was in a good way. And I think that was just down to Ludo being such a good listener and leading the conversation in the right direction. So yeah, I very much enjoyed it.

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Ludo Millar 34:54
Just to finish here, Steven, two relatively quickfire questions, although don’t feel that you have to answer them quickly, necessarily. The first one is, would you, knowing everything that you do, encourage your kids to become teachers?

Steven Berryman 35:12
I think I really, really love it. I do love teaching. But I guess I said, now I’ve worked in six schools, I think I would encourage anyone to be a teacher, if you love your subject, you love talking to people about it and you want to make people better and be their best selves. If you don’t like a fast-moving environment, that places probably sometimes unreasonable demands on you, and you have too much going on. And you have to do things in 40 to 50 minute chunks, and it keeps changing. And you keep seeing hundreds of kids all week. And it’s very noisy. And you might get demanding parents, and you might get demands and colleagues and you might get loads of demands. If you don’t like that very febrile, high-energy environment, probably teaching isn’t for you. And actually, I think the younger you go, the harder it is, and the demands. I think if you’re teaching early years, you’re clearly hugely brilliant, because that’s incredibly demanding. But again, it’s very demanding to teach A level as well. So think is a very fast-moving, physically demanding role. But if you love your subject, and you can’t stop talking about it, I think teaching is probably for you. Because it’s rare you get the chance to do that in any other workplace, really.

Ludo Millar 36:26
So you’ll have to wait and see until your kids either do or don’t love their subject to find out why. Finally, what’s next for you, Steven? What’s next for Steven Berryman? Apart from obviously, the Chartered College while you’re keeping your role at the Odyssey Trust.

Steven Berryman 36:44
Of course, yeah. So I’ll keep being Director in the Central Education team. So I think this is another perk about being a teacher, things are never the same. And so I guess no year is the same. And already in my own workplace, things shift. So I know next year, I’m looking a lot more at curriculum development, I’m looking a lot more at our relationship with partners. But I think I’ve got some research coming up, I’ve probably got something I should write, I’ve probably got a bit more teaching. I’m doing some teaching in a master’s programme. So this is what’s great about working in education, nothing is ever the same. And every year is a whole batch of new things to do and new people to work with. So yeah, there’s always something to look forward to thankfully so that’s another reason why you should be a teacher.

Ludo Millar 37:31
Yeah. Steven, thank you so much for coming on. I know that you enjoy talking about your role and your career. It’s certainly one that inspires and can inspire many educators out there. If you are thinking of joining the Chartered College, getting in there before Steven becomes President in November, then simply follow chartered.college. If you’re a member of the Qualified Tutor Community, or would like to be, you can always access Chartered College membership for a discounted fee upon graduation of our courses. Where is the best place, Steven, finally, if people want to get in touch with you straight after this, where should they go?

Steven Berryman 38:24
Ah, they can always tweet me. I’m probably- it’s interesting, I think most people think they want a quick answer from me, they tweet me. Which is hilarious, I keep thinking, ‘Why don’t you email me?’ [LAUGHS] but I’m very happy to be tweeted at @Steven_Berryman. I’m very friendly and always happy to chat.

Ludo Millar 38:41
Look at that. Steven, for one final time. Thank you very, very much for coming on. Thanks for the invite. And I will see you all next time, listeners. Cheerio.

***

Ludo Millar

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