What You Need to Know about Psychology in Learning: A Deep-Dive into the Latest Research in Memory, Motivation & Metacognition, with Psychologist, Author and Director of Inner Drive, Bradley Busch: Podcast Transcript

Ludo Millar
Hello, and welcome to the Qualified Tutor Podcast, the podcast that brings you the latest in the world of tutoring EdTech and education and hopefully inspires in us a big change that each and every one of us is capable of.

Qualified Tutor is an industry-leading tutor training organisation and an online tutoring community for 1000s of tutors around the world. This podcast is the voice of this community, where we aim to hear from tutors, teachers, entrepreneurs, coaches, business experts, students, tutor printers, and more from the world of tutoring about what inspires them every day, how they can help tutors like you and what they’ve learned about tutoring along the way.

The question is, what will you learn today?

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Ludo Millar 1:56
Hello, and welcome to the 135th episode of the Qualified Tutor Podcast. My name is Ludo Millar, the host of this podcast. Welcome back to regular listeners. Welcome to any of you for whom this is your first time listening to the Qualified Tutor Podcast. And a very warm welcome to our guest today, Bradley Busch. Bradley, welcome to the podcast.

Bradley Busch 3:09
Ludo, thanks for having me on.

Ludo Millar 3:12
Yeah, this was really a conversation and a discussion spawned by our wonderful episode two weeks ago with Arthur Moore, who said- the first thing Arthur said, once the recording was finished, was ‘You have to get Bradley Busch on the podcast’. So I reached out immediately as any good podcast host would. So I’m very glad that you’re here with us today, Bradley. And we’re going to be talking a little bit about, obviously, some of the latest pedagogical research in some areas that will be interesting to our audience. There’s a lot that you do with your business, Bradley, which we’ll get on to in just a second. But a real good look here at some aspects of cognitive load theory, of metacognition, self-regulation, and, of course, that all-important area of memory.

But for those of you who haven’t come across Bradley before, those of you listening, I’ll give a brief introduction to Bradley so that you know where we’re coming from today. Bradley is the founder of Inner Drive, a fantastic mindset coaching organisation that runs teaching and learning CPD alongside their workshops aimed at students themselves. And Bradley is also the author of The Science of Learning, which is a massive piece of work really, for Bradley and his co-author, Edward Watson, who I believe is actually in the room with us today although not on the podcast, that summarises many of the best studies in teaching and learning and distills them into easily digestible pointers and guidance. And the other side of Bradley’s psychology work, one side being the education and one of the other sides being sports psychology. So Bradley is a former, actually current, sports psychologist with a number of top football clubs and Olympic athletes on his roster. He is also a fiendish anagram creator, and perhaps a little bit more on that later [LAUGHS], there is a brilliant TEDx Talk that Bradley did a few years ago that we might touch on as well. So, just a bit there to be getting on with. But, Bradley, amongst all of that, you’re here today, Tuesday 11th October. What’s giving you reason to smile today, Bradley?

Bradley Busch 5:28
Oh, good question. It was my wife’s birthday a few days ago. And I managed to get through it without buying the wrong presents, managing to herd the kids into wrapping presents that resembled vaguely what a wrapped present should look like. And so yes, survived the weekend. That’s, yeah, my big win of recent days.

Ludo Millar 5:50
It only comes around once a year, doesn’t it? [LAUGHS] That’s terrific.

Bradley Busch 5:56
I have a high love of birthdays and presents. And I have a deep hatred for wrapping presents.

Ludo Millar 6:06
Well, we won’t touch on the wrapping part any more than- in fact, funny you just mentioned that because the episode I said last week was with The Rapping Science Teacher. But this is with an ‘r’ on the front, not a ‘w’. So Bradley, we’d like to start our conversation from the perspective of the why behind why our guests do what they do today. So I was wondering if you’d thought a little bit before about your why, and whether you could tell us right now what you think your why is?

Bradley Busch 6:44
Yeah, I guess, I taught for a few years in a college part-time. And I think I was okay at the time. But I was always just, well, I used to get quite frustrated. I always felt I was, to be honest with you, just blindly guessing on what I’m meant to do. And I was picking some stuff up with trial and error. But I just got to the stage where I kind of realised that everything that I was struggling with, someone smarter than me had researched it somewhere. And we might not have definitive answers but pretty much everything that I could think of like, ‘Why were my students forgetting stuff that I told them last week? How do we motivate bored students? Even how about homework should we set? Someone somewhere has researched it, and yet it was really frustrating that all this research was behind paywall. Or it’s written in a really psych-heavy jargon. And it’s just really inaccessible to the people who need it the most and can make the most difference with it, often teachers.

And so that’s really why my colleague and I, Edward, we made the decision to really try and make this stuff accessible. So we wrote about the science of learning. And it’s been a big driving force in the CPD workshops that we do in schools and the student workshops, because we think there’s gold in the research and it can change lives, if it’s just presented in the right way. And if it’s accessible to the people who can do the most with it. So yeah, I think there’s a deep and profound sense of ‘Can we make society better through education? Can we use research as a vehicle for that?’.

Ludo Millar 8:22
I presume the answer is ‘yes’ to both of those?

Bradley Busch 8:24
Hopefully [LAUGHS]. I’m always wary of overclaiming. But Edward, he would definitely say ‘Yes, absolutely, the answer is yes’. But I will probably go for, ‘I hope so’.

Ludo Millar 8:35
[LAUGHS] If the answer to both of those wasn’t ‘yes’, you’d be floundering as to, you know, why exactly-

Bradley Busch 8:40
Yeah exactly [LAUGHS].

Ludo Millar 8:41
So a bit like a tutor then there in that you are taking research and studies and pedagogy and turning that into a format or putting that into a format that is digestible by the greater public or by your students, if you’re a tutor. I think there’s that simplification process is really important there. And it’s a very clear part of Inner Drive.

Bradley Busch 9:11
Yeah, I mean, I think where we’re at, we kind of think we live in an age where a lack of information is not the biggest barrier. The information is out there and exists and if anything, we’re overly bombarded with information these days, is how do we separate the signal from the noise? How do we get rid of the clutter? And then how do we just make it accessible? And that I think, as opposed to seeking out new answers, is the big challenge in terms of driving education standards forward. 

Ludo Millar 9:43
Well, I firsthand can state that the way that you present your information on Inner Drive and obviously on your very active Twitter page is almost a bit like a sort of social media algorithm, the way that you’ve done the blogs, the way they link to each other, they’re incredibly readable, very, very easy to understand. I didn’t find myself, obviously doing the research for this episode, it was late into the night that I was still researching some of these points because your stuff on metacognition and on the use of questioning, and that kind of thing is really central to the kind of discussions that we have in our Community. So the Inner Drive stuff, I feel like it’s almost going to be addictive for our listeners.

Bradley Busch 10:24
I mean, that is really kind of you to say. I’d just quickly like to say, I would love to take the credit for all of it. If I had my way, I’d be writing theses the whole time. And it really is kind of a team effort on the content and the format and so yeh, we’re lucky here, I guess, at Inner Drive with a really nice and talented team. Yes, it’s a big team effort.

Ludo Millar 10:50
So, you have a background, obviously, in sports science. And that converted itself through your early career into sports psychology. And now you’ve added or included teaching and learning education to the psychology work and the consultancy work you do. Could you tell us a little bit about why that route? And why you think those areas might be linked? 

Bradley Busch 11:15
Yeah, I mean, so growing up, I was- my big, you asked what my kind of why was, if you’d have asked me at like 18 or 20, I’d have probably said something like ‘Trying to help England win the World Cup’ would have put ranked pretty highly on it. And, you know, I’ve been lucky enough to do some stuff with Team GB athletes from the Olympics and Paralympics, and we do some stuff with Premiership footballers. But over the years, we kept kind of going back to this point of what we think separated the best from the others, or those who made the most progress, were just the ones who were better learners.

And so we became really interested in like, why do some people learn faster than others, regardless of the context almost. And that’s where we kind of really went down the rabbit hole of the science of learning. And I guess a key part for us was all the research around that comes from educational psychology. And it’s done on either studies of university students, or secondary or primary students. And so the concept of learning, it’s just so broad in terms of ‘How do we then increase motivation to want to learn?’. So you can look at research in that area. And then ‘How do we improve memory?’ and stuff like retrieval and cognitive load kind of comes into it, and then even stuff around well, people who learn better are better at receiving feedback. And so what does the research kind of say around that and all of these components to learning, I just think are so powerful, and that’s where it was a natural step to really then in the last 10 years focus on education, because it’s such a formative period of your life, and we feel if we can help students get that part right, everything’s better then.

Ludo Millar 12:54
Did you ever tap into, when you were working with athletes and football players, did you tap into their education, you know, their upbringing? Was their schooling of large part of their work and their mindset, you know, at adult age?

Bradley Busch 13:09
Yeah, I’d say it was certainly a key part of their mindset. What’s fascinating to me is there’s such a large range. So I did work with a number of players who were from a single parent family who lived on inner city estates. But on the flip side, I did work a number of football players with, you know, a very different background and who had gone through the education system as well. So we did see a large range, there were some common features, I think, on reflection. So the ones, as I said, the ones who made the most progress were the best learners. I think they were able to deal with setbacks better. I think they were better able to self-reflect on their performance, regardless of the outcome, which I think has nice links to stuff like metacognition is, ‘How do you review and reflect on what you did well and what can be done better?’. And so yeah, we did see quite a lot of parallels.

The biggest difference, I guess, between sport and education, is I don’t often have to convince any of my athletes that it’s good to win a gold medal at the Olympics. They’ve kind of consensually signed up to be part of that process; whereas school and education is one of those weird things where, ‘I want you to have intrinsic motivation towards doing it and doing it well. I want you to want to learn’. But we also know that essentially there’s a big extrinsic motivator of like, ‘It’s the law and you don’t have a choice by and large’. So how do you develop intrinsic motivation for something that isn’t an intrinsic initial choice? And that’s, I think, one of the biggest differences between sport and education.

Ludo Millar 14:44
I’m not gonna let you get away with it that easily, Bradley. How do you develop intrinsic motivation in children?

Bradley Busch 14:51
So one of the biggest changes I think now how I see this stuff is, I used to think you focus on motivation and therefore, by motivating students to work hard, they’re more likely to be successful. And that is true, I think in part, but there’s been some nice research that works both ways. So, if you can help people experience success, they’re more likely to be motivated. Most people like to do stuff that they’re good at. And so therefore, that’s where pedagogy I think comes really into it is, ‘How do I then either scaffold support or create the task design where they experience some success early on?’ and then either increase the level of difficulty or I reduce the support, but actually, by not starting on motivation, by starting on success and developing competence, I think it starts the positive cycle of success-motivation, success-motivation. So I think that for me is- that is the starting point.

Ludo Millar 15:46
Okay, so one of those key ways might be showing children that if they are able to build on their own successes, and visualise their own successes, then subtly, and perhaps without them realising, you’ll start to create that cycle, you’ve just been describing.

Bradley Busch 16:01
So, one of the research theories, mainly around self efficacy, which is kind of situation-specific competence, you know, ‘How competent do I feel at Maths? How competent do I feel doing DIY at home?’. You have these different levels of competence in each domain. And the biggest predictor of that is previous performance. And therefore, the reason why it’s a mistake to focus too much initially, just on motivation, is if you give me this big pep talk to motivate me, and then I only go [and] experience failure, that carries more weight than the fluffy pep talk. Because there’s more previous experience that’s there. So, yes, experiencing early success and starting that, and then kind of what you were talking about, what we refer to as ‘self-reference behaviour’. So if you measure success based on where are you now compared to where you were two weeks ago, that is a much more robust form of motivation than me comparing myself to you, because I’m always relying on you being there providing that external motivating factor. And if you’re not, then it kind of just rebounds to my initial state.

Ludo Millar 17:05
And that’s such a- it can be such a toxic part of schools, isn’t it, is children comparing themselves to each other, rather than comparing themselves to their own progress.

Bradley Busch 17:16
Yes. But I think there’s two things that are really interesting there in terms of, especially teenagers, we know social status carries more weight for the teenage brain. So they’re naturally going to want to do that anyway. That’s kind of where they figure out ‘Where do I sit in the hierarchy or the pecking order or things, so I can figure out if I’m good at something, by comparing myself to my immediate peers. So they’re naturally going to do that. And then it gets made worse, I think, because as a society, we have all these little subtle mechanisms that actually encourage people to compare themselves to others.

So my favourite example is if we go back to sport for a second, the award that everyone wants to win in football, for example, is Player of the Season. That means you’re the best player, you’re better than everyone else who you play with, Player of the Season. The award that no one wants to win is Most Improved Player, because the stigma around Most Improved is you were rubbish, and now you can kind of run in a straight line without falling over. And yet Most Improve should be the high coveted award because everyone can run that race, everyone can win that regardless of ability. And even on awards night, everything builds up, the final award is Player of the Season. So as a society, we do kind of subtly value this comparing others to ourselves, even though in the long term, it’s probably quite detrimental to motivation.

Ludo Millar 18:35
Yeah, I guess that will necessitate a real cultural change across all areas, won’t it? I mean, that’s not something that’s easy to fix. But in the specific situation of a tutoring environment, the tutor, the trusted adult, can very much start to influence that not being influenced by your peers. But actually, something else that you mentioned there that I really want to pick up on was, you know, the best tutors will build in those quick wins at the start of a series of sessions with a student, you know, to a) give the impression that the student is learning quickly, but also to, you know, not just for any kind of pretence or feigning but really to improve that child’s scaffolding to progress. I think building in those quick wins, seeing that success is massive.

Now, we’ve touched on it just a couple of times already. But we have a theme every month in our Love Tutoring Community and this month, the theme is What Works, so a look at metacognition and self-regulation based off Lee Elliot Major and Steve Higgins’ 2019 book What Works?. Could you give us a few insights into how an educator can implement metacognition in the learning of their students? What does that actually mean to make use of metacognition? 

Bradley Busch 20:07
Yeah, I think it’s an area that confuses a lot of people, because it’s not intuitive from the name, what it is. And if you ask most people who have some knowledge of metacognition, they often say, ‘Oh, it’s kind of like thinking about your thinking’. But the problem with ‘thinking about your thinking’ is that’s quite a vague and abstract term. What does that look like in a session?

So one of the best definitions we’ve seen from the Education Endowment Foundation, their definition of metacognition is ‘the ability to direct, review and monitor your learning’. And I think if you talk about it in that terms, the ability to direct review and monitor your learning, you can attach strategies to each component part. So for example, I’ve seen it broken down as, ‘Can we talk about it before, during and after learning?’. So the before part, ‘How do we help motivate students to want to learn? How do we get them to reflect on what is this task similar to? And what have I done previously that has worked or hasn’t worked well?’. In the during part of the learning, ‘How do we help students stay on track, not get distracted, manage their emotions whilst doing so?’. And then the last part, what they refer to as reviewing your learning, is kind of the after that’s your relationship with feedback. So ‘Can I reflect on what works well?’.

One of my favourite questions I think everyone should know to get students asking themselves is, ‘What would I do differently next time?’. I think that is a great question because it puts a sense of control over the situation, ‘What can I do differently?’ but also puts emphasis on behaviour and process as opposed to just dwelling on the outcome. And so I understand why some people are put off by the phrase metacognition. Because it’s so broad, it feels like it covers everything, but then it’s on the flip side, makes it quite hard to pin it down. But if you start to think about it as ‘before, during or after learning’ or ‘ability to monitor, direct and review learning’, I think you can then target, quite nicely, specific parts of that.

Ludo Millar 22:08
Yeah, and just as you say there, it often- a few years ago, I probably wouldn’t have been able to just define or describe what metacognition meant, especially in the field of tutoring. If people want to learn more, in their own time, about metacognition, are there some good literary- where is the best place for people to go to keep up to date with these kinds of things and so they don’t feel too confused by it on a continual basis?

Bradley Busch 22:32
Yeah. So, with my self-promotional hat on, the Inner Drive website, innerdrive.co.uk, about once or twice a week, every time we find a teaching & learning study, often linked to metacognition, we summarise it and put it up and share resources for free. Outside of our own site, I do think the Education Endowment Foundation, their toolkit, again, it’s a free resource that compares and contrasts different learning interventions. They have really, really good and thorough overviews, and it’s very digestible and accessible. So I think those are the two that I usually tell people to start with. Yeah, I think that’s probably your best bet.

Ludo Millar 23:25
We brought you onto the podcast because you do wonderful things, Bradley, there’s no need to worry about self-promotion! Now, another key area, you know, to avoid too much giving a sense of overwhelm to our listeners today, we could run through everything that you’ve researched in your career, Bradley. But the first one I wanted to talk about was was metacognition and how that fits in. But the second one is your work on memory. And I mean, fairly bluntly, I just want to ask: what do tutors need to know about memory?

Bradley Busch 23:58
Okay, I’ve let’s say, two things, to keep it simple. The first is, and it doesn’t sound very nice to say, but the people that you’re tutoring probably have a very poor understanding of what helps their learning. So people often confuse what they like and what they prefer with what’s best for them. So you have some students saying, ‘I just learn better when I listen to music’ and ‘highlighting really helps me’. And what they often mean is, and they might be right, there is a chance, but often what they mean is, ‘These are the things I like doing because learning is hard and or boring’. And therefore this makes it either easier or more fun. So people are really bad at predicting what’s actually good for them.

And the second thing, I think, that everyone needs to know which builds on the first is, as a rough rule of thumb, the harder you think about stuff, the more likely you are to remember it. And that’s why for example, highlighting or just re-reading your notes doesn’t really help. Because I can skim read, I can highlight on autopilot. And I can brainlessly and aimlessly highlight; whereas the stuff that makes you think harder about stuff, revisiting stuff that you almost forgot that you did three weeks ago, generating the answer to a question, otherwise known as retrieval practice, comparing and contrasting similar but different things in research, known as interleaving, these are the sort of things that you can’t do without thinking hard about, and in doing so, makes you far more likely to remember it.

So I used to think for years, you did a lot of learning and then you did a quiz at the end and the quiz assessed how much you’ve learned. Whereas I now think the quiz doesn’t just assess the learning, the quiz accelerates the learning, the quiz is the learning. And so by getting them to generate answers, and you do that in loads of different formats, past papers, multiple choice quizzes, even verbal Q&A, but anything that makes students think harder, makes them generate an answer to a question, makes them recall it from their memory, I think they’re more likely to remember it next time.

Ludo Millar 26:14
And there’s something really important there about building in silence to your sessions, isn’t there? I’m pretty sure it was you guys that I watched an awesome video about, not second guessing a student’s lack of an answer as lack of knowledge. And being able to allow the student time to reflect on a question.

Bradley Busch 26:45
Yeah, I mean, that’s probably one of the biggest changes to my own personal practice. So I used to think learning should have been this fast back-and-forth between me and the learner. Literally, like neurons were firing between us; that’s what I thought learning looked like. And actually, if you now consider, if I’m saying this retrieval, recalling information from memory helps accelerate learning, then if I ask a question and you start trying to retrieve it, but then I cut that time too quick, and I just give you the answer, or I press you to giving a quick answer, then not only is your answer likely to be of lower quality, but I’ve short-circuited that retrieval process, which means you’re less likely to remember it next time.

And so now I think, learning sometimes does look uncomfortable and awkward and silent, but I’m after their best answer, not necessarily their first answer. And I mean, if you look at the research, the amount of time people wait after they ask some question before they get an answer, I think it’s usually about a second, it’s tiny. And you can’t really ever come up with anything good in that time.

So I think having the self-discipline to give it a bit more time is important. Now, then the obvious question becomes, ‘Why do people not give it enough time?’ and I think there’s a couple of reasons. One is, I think, there’s any area called ‘action bias’: we feel better when we’re doing something. I am paid to be tutoring you, so therefore, I should be doing stuff, as opposed to just sitting here waiting. So we kind of feel better when we do stuff. As a sidenote, and I know this because you’re a football fan, this is why apparently, if goalkeepers stayed still on a penalty, and stayed in the middle, they’d save twice the amount of goals. But the reason they don’t and they dive is because you feel like you’re meant to do something, like you’re meant to be trying to save this, essentially. So there’s this action bias that happens, I think.

I think another reason is, people have good intentions. So we all get into education because we generally want to help and support students. And so therefore, if I see you struggling, because I’m nice, and with good intention, I want to then help you and stop you from struggling. Well, actually, that struggle, if done in the supportive environment, is in the central part, I think, of that learning process.

Ludo Millar 29:02
Yeah, it is the learning itself, isn’t it? The learner themselves taking themselves from the place of no knowledge to the place of knowledge. Yeah, that kind of trust bridge.

Now Bradley, oftentimes on this podcast, we open up the question- I say oftentimes, actually, we used it a lot, it was a question we used a lot in the early days of the podcast, and then we felt it was a bit too cliché, but I’ve since brought it back in a couple of episodes. And that question is, because I see that you’re a bit of a visionary Bradley, a bit of a dreamer on some of these things. If you had a magic wand that you could wave over the education landscape, what would we see?

Bradley Busch 29:52
If I had a magic wand over the education landscape, I would make- I would get rid of paywalls behind research would be the first thing. And I would probably try and come up with a system where the researchers themselves spoke directly to their audience as opposed to other researchers. So making it as accessible as possible. I don’t think any research can ever give a definitive answer, but I think that it can give guidelines and we can then adapt within those guidelines. And so I think that for me is key because I see parents – and I’m speaking as one whose kid’s just started school – so desperate for their kid to do well, but not knowing what actually helps them, what we’re meant to be doing. I see teachers who are under immense pressure from workload. Once you know about research, it eases the time pressure to an extent because you don’t waste time on stuff that’s not as effective. And I see students having absolutely no idea how to learn and revise. And even the ones who are really, really smart to the ones who are really struggling, often, and it’s getting better, but they still don’t know really how learning happens. And I think if you know that, everything is transformed.

Ludo Millar 31:15
Did you get that listeners? If you know that, everything is transformed. [LAUGHS]

Bradley Busch 31:19
But you realise, I now have to ask you what was your answer? I’m guessing if you ask the question, you must have had an answer in the podcast.

Ludo Millar 31:25
[LAUGHS] No ..

Bradley Busch 31:27
Has no one ever asked you?

Ludo Millar 31:28
No one’s ever turned the question on me. Damn you, Bradley. We were talking earlier about slipping swear words in.

Bradley Busch 31:32
I thought I had you there ..

Ludo Millar 31:33
I would see classrooms themselves reshaped and reformed.

Bradley Busch 31:35
Oh go on, in what way?

Ludo Millar 31:36
Well, I’m certainly not the first to think this. I’ve taken this good idea from something I’ve read before. So you can’t credit me for this. But the idea that people sit or that students sit in rows facing a single teacher with perhaps a smartboard at the front but maybe not even, I think is a little antiquated. And I think the idea that we could encompass or at least integrate “tutor”-style individuals who could come in and and break down the content learning. I don’t believe that curricula should be abolished, but just that the way that a classroom is set up could be adapted. And we could use technology more effectively to deliver that first up learning. And then the discussion-based stuff is done in smaller groups with a tutor-style individual. That’s something I see as a better use of everyone’s time in the classroom: the teacher, the schools, the trustee boards, all those kinds of things. And of course, the students themselves.

Bradley Busch 32:47
See, this is why you’re going to have to get me back for your 270th episode [LAUGHS]. Because I’m a massive fan of Rhodes. I’ve always been a bit of a sucker for teacher at the front. So I’m open to being convinced but probably don’t have time for it on this podcast, I guess.

Ludo Millar 33:06
Yeah, there’s a whole conversation in there. And it’s important, I’m very glad Bradley that, you know, well, that that’s not the first question of the podcast, because as good as those dreams and those visions are, I think it’s really important that podcasts, and I hope this podcast, gives listeners real useful, implementable pointers, that they can go and use in a session, you know, this evening, for example, and I think you’ve done that magnificently. So thank you very much, Bradley.

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Ludo Millar 33:38
And now, a brief word from last week’s guest, Matt Green, whose episode you can catch after this.

Matt Green 33:44
It was a pleasure being invited onto the Qualified Tutor Podcast. It was a pleasure meeting Ludo and having a good chat. And I think what Qualified Tutor does for tutors in terms of sharing information, and helping to improve the quality of education for students is a fantastic thing. And yeah, it’s something that I’d be happy to do anytime again in the future.

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Ludo Millar 34:11
We have one final question, which is, what’s next for you, Bradley? What’s next for Bradley Busch?

Bradley Busch 34:19
Good question. We, well, Edward and I, my co-author of The Science of Learning, we have our next book coming out in Easter, called Teaching and Learning Illuminated, where we can try and use some of the visual representations of these key points to try and make them as understandable as possible. And we are currently expanding our Cognitive Science Network, which is a collection of schools who want to be at the forefront of research and teaching & learning that they can share best practice with one another. So that’s, I guess, our two immediate focuses at the moment.

Ludo Millar 34:54
I assume there could also have been a new Science of Learning with an astronomically high number of studies … ?

Bradley Busch 35:01
[LAUGHS] Edward made me promise to cap it at 99, because if I had it my way, we’d do another one every year but ..

Ludo Millar 35:08
I felt like 111 was the next number, I don’t know why. [LAUGHS]

Bradley Busch 35:12
I’ll float that by him. The problem is, they’re a right labour of love and take up all your time. But yeah, no, it was a good process writing the 99 studies; one, because I think it’s one of the best ways to actually get to know the research is by forcing yourself to summarise it and condense it and apply it. So yeah, I did love them. But I think that’s where we draw the line on those.

Ludo Millar 35:37
So for any of you listeners who are not quite sure exactly what we’re talking about, this is Bradley and Edward Watson’s book, The Science of Learning. They started with 77 studies that they’ve digested into these really easily understandable summaries for you to implement in your own learning. And they then took that to 99. Bradley, thank you so, so much for joining us; truly, I do mean that. It’s amazing to have someone who’s genuinely an expert in lots of the fields that are most central to our audience. So thank you.

Bradley Busch 36:16
I’ll take the praise, thank you yeh. Thank you for inviting me, I really appreciate it.

Ludo Millar 36:18
Yeah, if listeners want to get in touch with you straight after this, what is the one best way that they can do that?

Bradley Busch 36:27
If you go to innerdrive.co.uk, our email address and contact details are on there, so that’s probably the quickest and easiest way.

Ludo Millar 36:33
Awesome. Bradley, thank you very much for coming on. Next week, we will be speaking to Katie Tyndale about rewards programmes to be used in schools, but how that may also be applicable to private educators and tutors as well. So a really good little chat there about intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, which builds on this week and this week’s episode itself was built on Arthur Moore’s episode from two weeks ago. So you can go and have a listen to that as well. But for one final time, thank you very much, Bradley, and we’ll see you again next time.

Bradley Busch 37:06
Cheers. Thank you so much again.

***

Ludo Millar

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